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	<title>Comments on: The Biblical Burdens of Calvinism (Pt 3)</title>
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	<link>http://www.one28ministries.org/2007/04/01/the-biblical-burdens-of-calvinism-pt-3/</link>
	<description>in order to present every man complete in Christ</description>
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		<title>By: Pastor Job A. Bondad</title>
		<link>http://www.one28ministries.org/2007/04/01/the-biblical-burdens-of-calvinism-pt-3/comment-page-1/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Job A. Bondad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank God for the sovereign grace, Arminians always have their pride to question God. I believe that God elects according to His good pleasure and His own will. Anything from that is error. John 3:16 is very clear that He loved only those who are elected and not the whole world. Thanks.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In Him,
Pastor Job&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank God for the sovereign grace, Arminians always have their pride to question God. I believe that God elects according to His good pleasure and His own will. Anything from that is error. John 3:16 is very clear that He loved only those who are elected and not the whole world. Thanks.</p>

<p>In Him,
Pastor Job</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.one28ministries.org/2007/04/01/the-biblical-burdens-of-calvinism-pt-3/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.one28ministries.org/2007/04/01/the-biblical-burdens-of-calvinism-pt-3/#comment-93</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dear Shiven,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Thank you for your response, although I am saddened by your perception of God&#039;s sovereignty. Perhaps you don&#039;t really understand--at least this part of--theology after all. While my own understanding of God&#039;s sovereignty is not perfect I cannot imagine being truly joyful without it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In fact, the Bible clearly and consistently connects &lt;em&gt;our joy&lt;/em&gt; with &lt;em&gt;His control&lt;/em&gt; over all things, even when those things involve great personal pain.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For example, the apostle Peter links our ability to rejoice in heaviness to our knowledge of God&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1Peter+1%3A3-9&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sovereign mercy&lt;/a&gt; that regenerates us and protects us for an eternal inheritance. 1 Peter 1:6 says, &lt;strong&gt;In this we &lt;em&gt;rejoice&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;, that is, in His electing grace and His persevering grace (considered in verses 3-5) we &lt;em&gt;exult&lt;/em&gt;. And as verse 8 explains, this is no meager or minimal joy, it is &lt;strong&gt;joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory&lt;/strong&gt;. Without His sovereignty, not only would we still be dead in our sin, there would also be no reliable basis for joy now or in eternity.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What enabled Job&#039;s joy? Job immediately recognized God&#039;s control when he was suddenly blindsided by calamity (loss of all his livestock and property) and tragedy (all of his children killed by a windstorm). Not only did Job understand God&#039;s sovereignty, he &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=job+1%3A21&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;worshiped&lt;/em&gt; the LORD&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=job+2%3A9-10&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;criticized his wife for her unwillingness to receive evil from God&lt;/a&gt;, even when his own health was taken without warning. Although Job had no clue of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Job+1%3A8-12%3B+2%3A1-6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;purpose of this calamity&lt;/a&gt;, his response was &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; to question God&#039;s control or His character. The sovereignty of God was his comfort.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Certainly Jesus Himself is the ultimate example. It was for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Hebrews+12%3A2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;joy&lt;/em&gt; set before Him&lt;/a&gt; that He endured the cross, which He clearly understood to be &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Isa+53%3A6%2C+10%3B+Luke+22%3A42%3B+Acts+4%3A27-28&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;His Father&#039;s will&lt;/a&gt;. This was the greatest act of evil ever committed, yet it is also the greatest demonstration of God&#039;s love and grace. No other single event in history connects joy with sovereignty like the cross.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But why? How can/does this fit? Though we may not fully understand, God&#039;s Word does reveal the ultimate answer. The following paragraphs are from John Piper&#039;s message, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByDate/228_The_Suffering_of_Christ_and_the_Sovereignty_of_God/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Suffering of Christ and the Sovereignty of God&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;God decreed from all eternity to display the greatness of the glory of his grace for the enjoyment of his creatures, and he revealed to us that this is the ultimate aim and explanation of why there is sin and why there is suffering, and why there is a great suffering Savior. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came in the flesh to suffer and die and by that suffering and death to save undeserving sinners like you and me. This coming to suffer and die is the supreme manifestation of the greatness of the glory of the grace of God. Or to say it a little differently, the death of Christ in supreme suffering is the highest, clearest, surest display of the glory of the grace of God. If that is true, then a stunning truth is revealed, namely, suffering is an essential part of the created universe in which the greatness of the glory of the grace of God can be most fully revealed. Suffering is an essential part of the tapestry of the universe so that the weaving of grace can be seen for what it really is.  
      
Or to put it most simply and starkly: the ultimate reason that suffering exists in the universe is so that Christ might display the greatness of the glory of the grace of God by suffering in himself to overcome our suffering. The suffering of the utterly innocent and infinitely holy Son of God in the place of utterly undeserving sinners to bring us to everlasting joy is the greatest display of the glory of God’s grace that ever was, or ever could be.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;God was on the throne at the fall as He will be when men are judged to eternal wrath. But God was also on the cross, dying as a sinless substitute for all those who would ever believe, those whom the Father elected to salvation for the praise of His glorious grace. And for believers, our joy and His glory go hand in hand.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As hard as these truths may be, they are our only hope of salvation and therefore our only guarantee of joy. A Scripture-driven, Calvinistic understanding of this world doesn&#039;t make men miserable or cause us to collapse emotionally, it is a life-jacket that preserves joy now and forever.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Shiven,</p>

<p>Thank you for your response, although I am saddened by your perception of God&#8217;s sovereignty. Perhaps you don&#8217;t really understand&#8211;at least this part of&#8211;theology after all. While my own understanding of God&#8217;s sovereignty is not perfect I cannot imagine being truly joyful without it.</p>

<p>In fact, the Bible clearly and consistently connects <em>our joy</em> with <em>His control</em> over all things, even when those things involve great personal pain.</p>

<p>For example, the apostle Peter links our ability to rejoice in heaviness to our knowledge of God&#8217;s <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1Peter+1%3A3-9" rel="nofollow">sovereign mercy</a> that regenerates us and protects us for an eternal inheritance. 1 Peter 1:6 says, <strong>In this we <em>rejoice</em></strong>, that is, in His electing grace and His persevering grace (considered in verses 3-5) we <em>exult</em>. And as verse 8 explains, this is no meager or minimal joy, it is <strong>joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory</strong>. Without His sovereignty, not only would we still be dead in our sin, there would also be no reliable basis for joy now or in eternity.</p>

<p>What enabled Job&#8217;s joy? Job immediately recognized God&#8217;s control when he was suddenly blindsided by calamity (loss of all his livestock and property) and tragedy (all of his children killed by a windstorm). Not only did Job understand God&#8217;s sovereignty, he <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=job+1%3A21" rel="nofollow"><em>worshiped</em> the LORD</a> and <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=job+2%3A9-10" rel="nofollow">criticized his wife for her unwillingness to receive evil from God</a>, even when his own health was taken without warning. Although Job had no clue of the <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Job+1%3A8-12%3B+2%3A1-6" rel="nofollow">purpose of this calamity</a>, his response was <em>not</em> to question God&#8217;s control or His character. The sovereignty of God was his comfort.</p>

<p>Certainly Jesus Himself is the ultimate example. It was for the <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Hebrews+12%3A2" rel="nofollow"><em>joy</em> set before Him</a> that He endured the cross, which He clearly understood to be <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Isa+53%3A6%2C+10%3B+Luke+22%3A42%3B+Acts+4%3A27-28" rel="nofollow">His Father&#8217;s will</a>. This was the greatest act of evil ever committed, yet it is also the greatest demonstration of God&#8217;s love and grace. No other single event in history connects joy with sovereignty like the cross.</p>

<p>But why? How can/does this fit? Though we may not fully understand, God&#8217;s Word does reveal the ultimate answer. The following paragraphs are from John Piper&#8217;s message, <a href="http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByDate/228_The_Suffering_of_Christ_and_the_Sovereignty_of_God/" rel="nofollow">The Suffering of Christ and the Sovereignty of God</a>.</p>

<blockquote>God decreed from all eternity to display the greatness of the glory of his grace for the enjoyment of his creatures, and he revealed to us that this is the ultimate aim and explanation of why there is sin and why there is suffering, and why there is a great suffering Savior. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came in the flesh to suffer and die and by that suffering and death to save undeserving sinners like you and me. This coming to suffer and die is the supreme manifestation of the greatness of the glory of the grace of God. Or to say it a little differently, the death of Christ in supreme suffering is the highest, clearest, surest display of the glory of the grace of God. If that is true, then a stunning truth is revealed, namely, suffering is an essential part of the created universe in which the greatness of the glory of the grace of God can be most fully revealed. Suffering is an essential part of the tapestry of the universe so that the weaving of grace can be seen for what it really is.  
      
Or to put it most simply and starkly: the ultimate reason that suffering exists in the universe is so that Christ might display the greatness of the glory of the grace of God by suffering in himself to overcome our suffering. The suffering of the utterly innocent and infinitely holy Son of God in the place of utterly undeserving sinners to bring us to everlasting joy is the greatest display of the glory of God’s grace that ever was, or ever could be.</blockquote>

<p>God was on the throne at the fall as He will be when men are judged to eternal wrath. But God was also on the cross, dying as a sinless substitute for all those who would ever believe, those whom the Father elected to salvation for the praise of His glorious grace. And for believers, our joy and His glory go hand in hand.</p>

<p>As hard as these truths may be, they are our only hope of salvation and therefore our only guarantee of joy. A Scripture-driven, Calvinistic understanding of this world doesn&#8217;t make men miserable or cause us to collapse emotionally, it is a life-jacket that preserves joy now and forever.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: shiven</title>
		<link>http://www.one28ministries.org/2007/04/01/the-biblical-burdens-of-calvinism-pt-3/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>shiven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 03:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Forgive me for making probably a common complaint. All I want to know is how the calvinist finds this theology joyful. I&#039;m not being sarcastic or whatever and please believe that I understand theology quite well. I really do want to know how the calvinists does it. I often try to worship this God - whom planned adam to fall, for the seed of sin to pass on to all men, for those men to be unable to do anything but sin, to save some of them (which took not an eternal hell to accomplish but rather a day or two of pain) and to eternally torment the others, and all this for his glory of which he is under no obligation to achieve. I find myself agonizing over these thoughts. I feel I somehow have to embrace His destruction, somehow I have to approve of Him torturing every person I&#039;ve ever loved as they are not the elect. I see my family, whom first taught me Christ, burning in agony as I am obligated to accept that it is their just punishment for being heretical arminians - as God had decreed they would. I imagine this God, this God who does not have a priority for the well-being of his creation but rather his glory, feeling pleasure from the screams of world. I see him in all his glory, power, and knowledge and I fear him. But I&#039;m sickened by him. I raise my hands in surrender often but I emotionally collapse under the weight of having to accept the ultimately unacceptable to me. Someone please tell me - how do you find this acceptable? How can I love this? We are pawns when it comes to our destiny.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive me for making probably a common complaint. All I want to know is how the calvinist finds this theology joyful. I&#8217;m not being sarcastic or whatever and please believe that I understand theology quite well. I really do want to know how the calvinists does it. I often try to worship this God &#8211; whom planned adam to fall, for the seed of sin to pass on to all men, for those men to be unable to do anything but sin, to save some of them (which took not an eternal hell to accomplish but rather a day or two of pain) and to eternally torment the others, and all this for his glory of which he is under no obligation to achieve. I find myself agonizing over these thoughts. I feel I somehow have to embrace His destruction, somehow I have to approve of Him torturing every person I&#8217;ve ever loved as they are not the elect. I see my family, whom first taught me Christ, burning in agony as I am obligated to accept that it is their just punishment for being heretical arminians &#8211; as God had decreed they would. I imagine this God, this God who does not have a priority for the well-being of his creation but rather his glory, feeling pleasure from the screams of world. I see him in all his glory, power, and knowledge and I fear him. But I&#8217;m sickened by him. I raise my hands in surrender often but I emotionally collapse under the weight of having to accept the ultimately unacceptable to me. Someone please tell me &#8211; how do you find this acceptable? How can I love this? We are pawns when it comes to our destiny.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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